BiG Talk : Here Comes The Sun

Written by Ying Chia  |

Going with the flow may not have been what Emma Agaki’s parents necessarily envisioned for her, but this former corporate girlie is a living embodiment of trust the process. Her varied resume includes time spent studying in the United Kingdom, Australia and Kuala Lumpur, with majors in Film and TV, International Relations, and a long career in communications and stakeholder management at the Brunei Economic Development Board (BEDB). Like many others, the impact of COVID-19 left her looking for something more. She found deep interest in the BodyTalk practice of refocusing your body’s natural healing response to promote health and wellbeing by facilitating better communication within the body, and worked her way to becoming a certified practitioner — one of the very few in Brunei and regionally. We sat down for a good chat about hot takes on wellness, the business economy and just how hard it really is to listen to yourself.

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Let’s delve into a bit of background for those who may not be familiar with you.

Emma Agaki:  Ok, sure! I have a background in Communications, majoring in Film & TV, and started my career in RTB coordinating news exchange with countries in ASEAN and Asia Pacific — that was a long time ago! Working in a news station got me interested in international affairs and what was going on in the world, so I decides to go back to Uni to study International Relations. I thought I’d like to work in diplomacy, but when I came back, I ended up getting a job at the Brunei Economic Development Board (BEDB). I had some great years at BEDB, and then in 2015 half of the organisation splintered off to form Darussalam Enterprise, which is where I was until I left the corporate world in 2021 to explore my personal interest in health and wellbeing. I can’t say that I had a clear path or purpose. It’s a key thing, you know? I feel there’s some people who early on know what they want to fo and it’s like “Yeah I want to focus on this!” and I never felt that. I had an interest in a variety of different things, rather than a burning passion for one particular thing. When I think back, it was more of going with the flow and just kinda finguring out and exploring interests. 

We have a lot of conditioning and we’re often led to believe that there is a “right” was of doing things. You can tick those boxes, but then at some point you start to question “is this really it? Am I really fulfilled?”. That questioning eventually led me to take the big leap to leave my corporate job in early 2021. It was a very hard decision to leave after being there around 14 years. It was during COVID time too, so the uncertainty was a huge risk. But, you know, I think at some point you just feel that need to explore something different and see where it goes. And that exploration led me into the health and wellbeing industry, where I retrained in a holistic health system called BodyTalk, which activates your body’s natural healing capabilities to promote balance and wellbeing. I am a Certified Practitioner about a year ago, and working one-on-one with clients has been so deeply fulfilling!

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Your dad worked for the government for pretty much all his career. As someone who’s grown up around that level of social influence and exposure, did that have any impact or inspire you to want to pursue something similar?

Emma Agaki:  I’d say his experience working in government certainly influenced (me), and probably shaped my early outlook in wanting to contribute to our country in some shape of form, although I can’t say I was necessarily inspired to follow a similar path into government service. Our government is actually very big for such a small country, so I think sometimes it may be difficult to feel like you’re making an impact because it’s so huge in scope, and you’re like that one small cog in a big machine. Having said that, I was seconded to the government for a while and it was a really good experience, there are some really good, really capable and driven people. But for me, I think I’ve always wanted to walk my own path (wherever that may lead!), and while I was “inspired” to contribute to the country, the dynamics of working in a smaller organisation were more appealing to me. Working at BEDB was a great experience because it was a smaller organisation (at that time), yet it had a big mandate in contributing to Brunei’s economic development.

Over time I came to realise that while a big goal of ‘contributing to the nation’ sounded great, the reality was for me, on a personal level, I felt best when dealing directly with people. Working in communications, stakeholder management and Human Resources was really all about understanding people. To work effectively we need to be able to work with people, to see different perspectives, to understand what drives people, to bring people together whether it’s in negotiation or trying to work together for a common cause or project. I think this is the one aspect that really translates over to my current work, being able to connect and understand my clients really helps facilitate positive results and greater impact on their wellbeing.

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You spent time being close to the action of budding SMEs and independent business owners while at BEDB/DARE, what do you think has changed since then in the ecosystem or approach?

Emma Agaki:  Interesting question. You know, I haven’t thought too much about it since I left around four years or so ago! I would say there is a lot more drive now, there are concerted and tangible efforts to diversify the economy, especially with the rising unemployment. Issues like this really highlight just how important it is for us to develop new industries, to create more jobs, a more dynamic and resilient economy. I also see a lot more awareness and effort in trying to help local businesses and encourage entrepreneurship, which is frankly very necessary, because ultimately a vibrant private sector is a key drive to economic growth and stability.

I do feel that there’s a gap in terms of the assistance given and what businesses actually experience, which I understand better now that I’ve been on both sides of it. On the one side, they are looking macro; what is good for the economy and how we can help businesses grow as fast as possible. And on the other side there’s the personal experience of the business owner in managing the day to day of their business. I didn’t really get it before. It’s one of those things that you can logically understand, but it’s not until you go through it that you really understand the felt experience. Starting or growing a business — particularly a micro or small business — is not just a business journey, it’s a personal growth journey as well, often times business owners are learning and growing alongside their business. There’s an emotional component to it, your business can feel like an extension of you. You don’t want to feel your livelihood is just a tick in someone’s box.

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What are your thoughts on the fact there does need to be a balance of people doing their own business and people working in the normal 9-to-5? Can everyone do their own business?

Emma Agaki:  I would probably say anyone can go into business, but not everyone would necessarily want to! With the job market being as it is, there’s understandably been a big drive and emphasis on entrepreneurship, but the truth is it’s probably not gonna be everyone’s cup of tea. It’s not so much a question of capability, because knowledge and skills can always be learned. I think it really comes down to expectations and understanding the reality of what entrepreneurship entails, as well as a healthy understanding of yourself, your personality, your strengths and areas of improvement. It’s not just having a business idea and then having the resilience to develop it. Yes, those are very important skills but it is also about being able to navigate the whole journey. How comfortable are you with risk? Are you able to navigate uncertainty? How do you adapt to change? Are you self-motivated and self-directed? A creative problem solver? Of course it fluctuates from industry to industry, but in general going into business is likely going to involve some risk, uncertainty, change and strong  self-leadership. If you know your personality is not going to thrive in that environment, maybe the 9-to-5 is a better option for you. Having said that, maybe you’re not too comfortable with any of those things, but you’re open to adapting because you have a burning passion for your business idea — great! Going into the experience with eyes wide open and a willingness to try will take you far. 

There’s always going to be a place for those 9-to-5 jobs and some personalities are well suited to that dynamic, but I would definitely encourage young people to explore entrepreneurship, whether or not you stick at it over the long term, you will definitely build resilience and a diverse skill set! It’s also easier to adapt when you’re young and you’ve got less to lose and everything to gain. And those are really important qualities to have in today’s world. For those thinking of leaving their jobs to start a business, I would just say to mentally prepare for a mindset and lifestyle shift! It’s a whole different world, and the little things can catch you off guard. Like going from a stable income every month where you are able to budget and plan consistently, to an inconsistent or fluctuating income where you have to adapt accordingly. Or having to adjust your working hours to cater for people after office hours. But of course, on the plus side, you have greater autonomy and flexibility. So it’s always a trade off. Starting a business is hard work, but there can also be a lot of reward and fulfilment, as long as we go into it with awareness. Often people make that choice out of frustration with their current job, ideally you want it to be a pull factor, not a push factor.

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It feels like social media has glamourized this idea of the small business owner, but there is so much more work that you have to be prepared for. 

Emma Agaki:  So true! A common perception is “I’m so excited. I can be my own boss; I can set my own schedule.” It can look so empowering, and it is, but the reality is that you’re the one doing everything! And if you don’t move, nothing will. Say you start a small food business, for example. You’re the one making the product, taking the orders, marketing it. You’re doing everything. While you’re baking, are you able to be all these other roles? It can be an adjustment when you start out solo, especially if you’re used to working in a team. 

For me BodyTalk as a holistic healthcare system is something new here. I need to get out there and market my services, generate leads. How can I talk about it in a way that people can easily understand? How do you communicate something clearly and catch people’s interest? It can take a lot of thought sometimes. At the same time, I also want to be seeing clients and doing sessions, because that’s essentially what I do. But that’s time away from marketing, or planning or managing your own accounts. It’s quite juggling act, and sometimes I drop a ball or two, but honestly I feel a lot of fulfilment in this option for me because I can see the direct impact on my clients’ wellbeing, so that is very rewarding. 

Whichever choice you make, whether to stay in traditional employment or go into business, there’s no right or wrong as long as you know yourself and what is best suited to you. There will be challenges either way, both require hard work, you just choose which set of challenges you’re going to take on.

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You were one of the first adopters of the CrossFit regime. What was it that attracted you to CrossFit and the whole environment that came with it?

Emma Agaki:  When I got into CrossFit, that was probably around 2011, when CrossFit was first starting and GetFit was the first CrossFit gym in Brunei. I already had an interest in health and wellbeing, but at that time my focus was more on physical fitness. I liked the challenge of CrossFit, challenging yourself to do things you didn’t initially think you could do. It’s a mental game, a mind shift, and I had never thought of myself as that kind of person before, an “athlete”. Now there’s a whole big thing about mental health, but your mind and body are not separate. This is why BodyTalk appeals to me so much, because you’re dealing holistically. Our thoughts and beliefs affect our physical health, and that was also my experience with CrossFit — changing the way I saw myself and my capabilities opened up a lot of growth in terms of physical fitness it’s like that saying, “whether you believe you can or you believe you can’t, you are right”.

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Have those qualities or things that you’ve learned, stuck with you even after?

Emma Agaki:  Yeah I would say so. especially the awareness of the connection between mind and the body. When our mind believes we can’t do something, physically we can’t do it. When we allow our mind to believe in the possibility that we can, we are able to push past our boundaries and achieve new things. Initially this was just something I applied to (physical) training, but really it’s applicable for life in general, isn’t it? The mind is always trying to keep us safe, predicting an outcome based on past experience. This is how it operates, why it’s so easy to get stuck in mental loops or limiting beliefs, and why it can be so hard to break out of old habits. Trying to rewire your brain or shift your mindset about something is not easy especially when you’re attempting new things. Our mind just wants to pull us back into our comfort zone to keep us safe, retreat to old habits and habitual thinking. We work a lot with this in BodyTalk as well, releasing limiting beliefs, so having my own experience to draw on has been helpful. 

It’s actually been very relevant for me over the past couple of years, leaving the corporate world and going into business. It’s been a learning curve, learning new ways of doing things, challenging old perspectives and habits. I think we need different things at different points in life, so allowing ourselves to navigate big life changes.

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I think that’s another phrase or word that’s been thrown out a lot as well in recent years. What does self-trust look like to you?

Emma Agaki:  That’s a good one. To me, self-trust is about being able to tune into yourself and understand what it is you need in that moment. We often put our trust in other people to tell us what to do or how to do something, and we tend to do that before really questioning and trusting ourselves. We ask friends for advice and that’s so normal, we don’t think about it. But when it comes down to it, only you truly know what is best for you. We can get so off track because we never learned to listen to ourselves. Other people are coming from their own perspective, with their own belief systems which may not be the same as yours right? When you start to build your life or make choices based on other people you can end up eroding your self-trust even further, like a muscle that becomes weaker from lack of exercise … that’s not to say other people’s advice is ‘bad’, but you have to learn to think for yourself, decide for yourself, and sometimes it’s not easy! People might argue ‘What are you doing that for?’ or ‘You should do it like this, not like that’. So it’s being able to get to a point where you can have conviction in your own choices and path, regardless of what others may say.

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It’s hard thought, right? Letting people walk their own path and learning the skill of letting the people you love, be it friends or family, do that. To have the self-trust in yourself to allow them to live their own life. 

Emma Agaki:  Absolutely, hundred percent. Collectively we have a lot of learned behaviours and beliefs, whether cultural or societal, around what it means to be caring or helpful, and how we should help or support others. It kind of reminds me of that saying — “give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” . When we help someone, we often try to solve their problem for them, rather than letting them learn how to solve the problem themselves so that they can grown in confidence and self-trust. I think it’s a big lesson that many of us grapple with, learning to let people find their own way through their struggle. If we step in to help them or bail them out, we deny them the opportunity to build the skills or resilience they need to stand on their own two feet. Sometimes the lesson is in the struggle. But yeah, it can be hard to just watch them figure it out for themselves and support them through it.

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Since you’re now in the health industry, what’s your hot take on the ideas or things you wish people would unlearn?

Emma Agaki:  One would be unlearning the feeling of having something to prove, whether that’s in work or life in general. To feel the need to prove that we are hardworking, or capable, or worthy in order to gain someone’s approval or validation, instead of learning to validate ourselves. I think this goes back to cultivating self-trust. Another would be unlearning any limiting beliefs around productivity that block people from being able to really relax and unwind, which obviously essential for their balance and wellbeing. Nowadays there’s so much pressure to go, go, go, that people forget how to really slow down. You can see it manifest in their breathing patterns, a lot of shallow breathing instead of long deep inhales and exhales, which can really limit the body’s ability to heal itself.

I would also really love to see more people develop a deeper understanding of themselves. I feel we can be so affected and influenced by other people and our environment, expectations from friends, family, workplace, without even realising it. We often spend so much time and energy truing to live by those expectations without really reflecting on whether that’s what really brings us fulfillment? How can we expect to feel happy and fulfilled if we’re walking someone else’s path?

Personally, this is actually where BodyTalk has been so impactful for me, in supporting personal growth. It has really helped me unlearn and release this kind of conditioning of ideas or limiting beliefs that block me from living a more balanced and healthy life.

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Okay, on that note — how do you know when you’re truly walking in your own path?

Emma Agaki:  I would say feeling a sense of peace and fulfilment is probably a good indicator. But I supposed you won’t really know unless you’ve taken the time to think and reflect on what you really want, and cultivated a level of self-trust. I think the key is that you make space for mindful reflection as opposed to just reacting to life, leading you to make more aligned decisions that make you feel more fulfilled and engaged with life. True health is not just the absence of disease but also vitality and balance. When you’re physically ‘healthy’ yet you feel flat or uninspired, is that a true picture of health? In BodyTalk we view health as a state of balance, and by addressing stress, anxiety, trauma, or injury promptly, you can maintain your well-being and promote a healthier, more harmonious state. And I reckon that’s a pretty good place to find your path.